and if you are sort of only peripherally engaged or not the superengaged person, ronald reagan was not engaged in every detail, he could have the stam no-- stamina to do t but obama is engaged in everything. and i do think there is a sense of fat agency that one senses around the white house and one senses around him. nd so to get the passion that he had in 2008, i think is just hard given everything he's been through. >> you think that explains, mark, partly what happened? >> it may well, judy. 48 hours later, first of all, just a personal note, i have speculated on debate night that the president's passive performance and it was quite passive, listless, may have been attributed in part to john kerry, his sparring partner in the prep sessions who is a leading contender to be secretary of state maybe not going tough toe-to-toe to him. my subsequent reporting has, in fact, contradicted that. john kerry, i was told by two eye witnesses was actually tougher inside than mitt romney was with barack obama. >> woodruff: so that's not it. >> no, i don't think that-- i do think what we conclude